How does this fit with the other texts we have analyzed?
Better yet:
SON and EMIGRANTE are SELF-REPRESENTATIONS.
Cartoons, shorts and ITALIAN are REPRESENTATIONS OF ITALIANS BY other people.
Do you begin to see a pattern?
If you don't (and it's OK if you don't), is it because there are too many new factors, aspects, pieces of information that create too much background noise, making it difficult to focus (please, skip the "not enough time" alibi.)
COMMENTS and lots and lots of replies.
I do see a pattern in the films and the novel. The pattern follows the aggressiveness of the characters and also the lifestyles they live. They all seem to have the same similarities and run into similar situations throughout their daily lives.
ReplyDeleteI agree, that all of the films, cartoons, and shorts represented hardships of the characters. Many of these hardships were presented through biases against the Italian Americans. Also the self-representations portrayed the messages more effectively.
DeleteI agree, that all of the films, cartoons, and shorts represented hardships of the characters. Many of these hardships were presented through biases against the Italian Americans. Also the self-representations portrayed the messages more effectively.
DeleteThe pattern I see is that the self representations show the hardships of the Italian immigrants, the struggles they faced and their own feelings of America. On the other hand, the representations of Italians done by the cartoons and shorts are how others thought of Italians and how they wanted them to be portrayed to other people. The self representations allowed us to view their life from their perspective, while the representations tried to persuade us into thinking Italians were a certain way.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't The Italian break that pattern though? For the most part, we see the plot unfold in The Italian through Beppo's eyes. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your comment, but even though The Italian does try and persuade us that Italians are a certain way, it still tries to portray Italians from the perspective of an Italian. If that's not what you meant, then aren't you just saying "the self-representations are self-representations and the representations are not?"
DeleteWhen I watched the film, I didn't feel that The Italian was portrayed from the perspective of an Italian. For example, the film focusing on his eyes when he saw the men who robbed him portrayed him as an animal ready to attack. When he asked Bill Corrigan for help, he threw Beppo to the street like an animal. In my opinion I feel there is a difference between self-representations and representations.
DeleteRepresentations try hard to stress the misbehavior of Italians in comparison to self-representations.
DeleteThere really is a difference between self-representations and non-self representations. Son of Italy and L'Emigrante's idea of Italians is much more different than the cartoons and the Italian, and I think those differences were easy to make out. In the non-self representations there was always a negative depiction of Italians, whether it was really big and obvious like in the cartoons, or some minimal things in the Italian.
ReplyDeleteThe works that can be described as "self-representations" show that there is an issue that needs to be addressed about America itself. The creators of the works that represent Italians refuse to admit that there might be a problem with America itself. In The Italian, for example, the bulk of Beppo's problems are attributed to his violence and a freak heat wave. But the self-representative works note the difficulty of trying to live in America as an immigrant, not just the difficulty of "being an immigrant."
ReplyDeleteThere is a pattern between all of these class readings and films. The connection between the Italian immigrants traveling to America in all the films we notice many similarities. The view of the Statue of Liberty and even the hardships Italians faced when looking for a job.
ReplyDeleteThe movie L’emigrante is a self-representation of Italians, like the book the Son of Italy. In both of these, we see the hardships and the struggles Italian immigrants had to face when coming to America. We get a real representation without much of the dramatics in play. We get a sense of who Italians are. In L’Emigrante, Peppino is portrayed as a very aggressive man who always raises a hand when something does not go his way. This personality trait of Italians is also shown in The Italian and cartoons that are not self representations. However, those that are not self representations over emphasize the wrongdoings of Italians.
ReplyDeleteI definitely see a pattern in both the self-representations and representations of Italians by other people of Italians being portrayed as passionate, emotional, and somewhat aggressive. I believe the self-representations show the source of the aggression and violence (being treated like animals, laborious work, little regard for immigrant lives, very difficult time making money which can lead to finding other outlets as in Peppino's case), while the shorts and cartoons simply depict Italian Americans and immigrants as violent by nature and mostly (save The Italian) without cause, as if it were a biological inclination toward crime.
ReplyDeleteThere is a pattern in the self-representations and the cartoons, shorts, and in The Italian. Both of the self-representations followed a similar path, they both showed the hardships and challenges faced in America. "The Italian" also represented the sufferings of an Italian American, however all of the cartoons, and the shorts were filled with biases and stereotype about Italian Americans. The self-representations however had a realistic approach and made person feel more connected.
ReplyDeleteIn the movie L'emigrant, the main character Peppino goes through a lot of the similar things that Pascal from Son of Italy goes through. The hardships of coming to a new country and trying to make a living are seen in most movies and readings we have done. All the material we have looked at focuses and connects with being a immigrants and doing everything that can be done to find a job or to better oneself.
ReplyDeleteAnd while coming to America may seem glamorous and an immigrant's dream, the path may sometimes come with regret and doubt.
DeleteLike you stated, Peppino and Pascal's aspirations were similar, but I think it's fair to say they both didn't expect the hardships each were faced with. Whether it was Peppino's new-found affiliations with the mob, or Pascal's disastrous view of the fatal Derrick accident, it was hell for them as immigrants to see the fruits of their labor paying off.
The Self-representations of both SON and EMIGRANTE are obvious cases. They were told from the perspectives of Italians while the later shorts, cartoons, and ITALIAN were the stereotypes of others.
ReplyDeleteI believe the pattern shared is that people outside of the culture misrepresent the aspects within the culture. If a person who doesn't fully understand/educate themselves on the total pieces of the Italian culture, and is put in charge of telling the Italians' story, then it becomes very difficult to get the truth.
When somebody who is not from the same origins as you and has not had a similar struggle tries to tell your story, it gets misinterpreted and explained poorly. Especially if the individuals portraying the Italian's already has some type of bias towards them.
DeleteI feel like the "work" representation is a nice pattern between L'Emigrante and Son of Italy. Immigrants coming to the states in search of a better opportunity and then giving them the dirty work stereotype or the poor stereotype.It is important to see both sides which I believe Moonstruck showed. The unfortunate part is that most of the stereotypes that were brought up in this book were the ones that were negative, and only got to a good place through negative stereotypes. It feels like L'emmigrante was the lack of representation of Italian culture and Son of Italy was more authentic, other than the fact it was a biography I felt like it made more sense.
ReplyDeleteSons and L'Emigrante compared to the cartoons show a huge difference. When a piece of work is self-representation, we experience a more honest story. The cartoons are written through third parties who may have no experienced the same hardships and struggles as the people they are writing about. The authors of the self-representative pieces can tel their stories first hand while the authors of the cartoons may have already placed biases in their heads.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThere is a clear difference between works that are expressions and works that are impressions. The cartoons we looked at and films like Moonstruck, utilize public impression which more often than not is limited and minimizing to a peoples identity. The information traded about peoples impressions and expressions is easily miscommunicated. Son of Italy and L'Emigrante are expressions of the experience and resonate more truthfully because of it. If you must walk mile in someone else's shoes to understand them, imagine the distance the cartoonist would need to travel to understand his subject matter.
ReplyDeleteThere is a pattern amongst the two. You can see that the self-representations showed the challenges faced in America. Whereas the representations show a stereotype approach to Italians.
ReplyDelete